Thanks to everyone who sent in their "you need to know" and "I wish I'd known" replies to our last newsletter. Your experiences and insights helped us put together this approach to finding an effective broker.
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Carl: Gene, you may remember the last time we got together, I was a little frustrated with brokers.
Gene: You were.
Carl: You remember that?
Gene: I remember it well.
Carl: Do you want to hear?
Gene: He has notes. He has notes folks.
Carl: It's just blank paper.
Gene: He has blank paper.
Carl: Or is it? Okay. There are a lot of people who've had problems with brokers. Shocker alert, spoiler alert. I got so many emails back... More than ever for any newsletter. And it was so much about, they promised the moon, they didn't deliver. They said it would happen quickly, I'm on month three. Meanwhile, I'm still paying them. All this kind of stuff. And I did hear from some brokers too. I said, hey, give me, give me your input. Let me know what you think. And I'll give you equal air time. I'm not going to say who it is because that would be a little promotional and they may play me. And then I hear, hey, you said, but then they did. And then I'm the asshole.
Gene: Well.
Carl: Either way. Right? I got it. Hey, I've come to terms with being an asshole.
Gene: It's your job.
Carl: It's my job, man. Don't do that. Can't do that. Kind of get in trouble for that. So anyway, I also had a couple of people show up who said they had a good broker experience.
Gene: Okay.
Carl: And they explained to me kind of how they approached it. So this week's newsletter, which comes out tonight. Well, last Tuesday night, because this comes out on Friday. Time zones, folks, learn them.
Gene: Time travel. Learn it.
Carl: What? 11:27 AM. Carl's useless.
Gene: Okay.
Carl: I wanted to go through some of what those people shared as how they found good brokers. And also just looking online, there are definitely brokers out there who can help you, but because the market is so hot right now, you really do have to be careful how you approach things and how you get started. So anyway, Gene, I thought it'll be fun if we do that game where you guess things, I tell you're wrong and then tell you the correct answer. What do you think?
Gene: Sounds like me choosing where we're going for dinner.
Carl: Okay. Charleston. How about that? No?
Gene: Yes.
Carl: Okay. Because three of the people that listen are in Charleston. I can't back that up. Gene, what do you think is the best way to start your search for a broker?
Gene: The yellow pages.
Carl: Not too far off. Actually, there are some great directories out there. Let me make sure I get this right. The international business brokers association also known as the IBBA, although I think they missed an opportunity to be the IWBA. I think that would've been a much better. Hey, I'm here for you, marketing any kind of-
Gene: Branding.
Carl: ... Name, Carl's here.
Gene: Branding.
Carl: But they do have a directory. And one of the things that hit me was there's so many certifications for brokers, but some of them are just you pay and then you can get on the certification on the website, directory, all that stuff. This international business brokers association, they actually have a certified business intermediary certification, which is a pain in the ass to get. It takes a lot of work. I think it costs a little bit of money. And because of that, to me, it feels like a valid certification to want.
Gene: Yeah, absolutely.
Carl: Somebody who shows up, that's just fly by night. They're not going to take the time to do that.
Gene: Right. Right.
Carl: And they're already seeing success in their approach. So why would they do something else? So that to me felt pretty good. The other thing we, if you look at certifications and associations, I mean, you could look at the bureau and say, okay, somebody's part of the bureau. So they're a valid shop. They're a valid resource. I want to work with them. It's the same thing. There are other associations out there for these brokers that do promote good ethics and they do that sort of thing. You still have to check them out. But I think it's a little check in the right box there, if they're part of a group that is trying to make it a good community and a good resource for everybody. And then also referrals, I think that's the other one. If you know somebody who's been through it, either find out from them who to talk to or who not to talk to.
Gene: Right. Right. That's always good. That's for like... Yeah. Just about anything.
Carl: Gene, you ready for your next one? You did pretty good. I'm going to say you're one for one, even though you're being snarky with the yellow pages and what if we have people listening who don't know what the hell that means?
Gene: What do I get if I win?
Carl: Yeah, sure. You catch back in the day.
Gene: We had paper.
Carl: We had paper, we had big ass books of every business in your location. Except half of them had gone out of business by the time the book got delivered and you couldn't get them to stop delivering the book. So recycling was having a heyday.
Gene: Yep.
Carl: When it was not even in existence.
Gene: So were all those strong guys that would rip them in half.
Carl: Oh man. That was amazing, right?
Gene: Was a good pastime.
Carl: Yeah. It hurts your hands though. I couldn't do more than two at a time.
Gene: I always use my teeth.
Carl: All right. So how do you think is the best way to prepare, to select a broker? Think about buying a house or selling your house, right? It's kind of a similar thing. If you're asking somebody to come sell your company with you or for you, what do you think you need to be prepared with when they show up?
Gene: Wow. This could be a lot of stuff. I think the very least you need to have your old PNLs ready. You're accounting. [crosstalk 00:06:21]
Carl: I see you're going to start throwing letters at me. I got lots of letters, pal. All right?
Gene: Got to have your QuickBooks up the date, bro.
Carl: Yeah. And you know what though? I think there's something really smart about that. A great broker is going to help you get all of your paperwork in order. And it's almost like... I've told people before. It's almost ?like if you clean up your house before you have a cleaning service come over, right. Oh, I don't want to see that I left this out. Right? Or even your hotel room when they're coming to freshen up your room and you make sure that you rearrange your toiletries or whatever. I think there's something to this though in making sure that you have a good handle on what you have to sell.
Gene: Yeah. Right.
Carl: And I would even go so far as to say, maybe get evaluation from a third party before you talk to a broker. Obviously broker's a third party, blah, blah, blah. But my bank offers free valuations. Now, obviously they're not going to understand the intricacies of a digital shop.
Gene: No.
Carl: But if it's free. I mean, if there's somebody else that you can go to, maybe it's your CFO, maybe it's somebody like that understands those formulas. Just so you have a baseline of understanding before some broker can give you an anchor. Right? And then we've all studied this, our brains, as soon as we see a number, even if it's not related to what we're deciding, it can influence us up or down. So I think it's important that we establish that anchor before we get in a conversation with a broker, if possible.
Gene: Yeah. And it seems like if you follow the analogy here, like if you're getting ready for another job and you're helping someone make the resume look better, it seems like a broker's going to do some of that work for your business.
Carl: Good one. And that leads us into the second thing. So I think the first thing, look at associations, look at certifications, find referrals, do all that sort of stuff before you contact a broker. But the second thing is once you contact them and I do think you should be prepared, you should have your own information before you meet with them. What is their process? What is it going to look like? Do they start by telling you how quickly they can get you listed? Or they start by asking you questions about your business and what makes you a special little snowflake, right?
Carl: Because it's just like us. If we're bringing somebody in to our shop and we want to work with them, we don't start by telling them, hey, we're going to get this up for you in three weeks and it's only going to cost $5,000. We started by saying, well, tell me more about your business and the goals. What are you trying to accomplish here? I think it's the same thing for a great broker. They should explain their process, yes, but they should show their process, which to me would include asking about you. Is it important that you sell this quickly or that you maximize your return? These are the types of things I would want somebody to ask me because quite frankly, I may not have thought of it, right?
Gene: Absolutely.
Carl: I'm stopping talking now so that you can...
Gene: Absolutely. I mean, those are two different approaches, whether it's faster or to get the most out of it. And yeah, just like in anything. Like you're saying, take a contractor is going to work on your kitchen. If the first thing they say is like, whatever you want, I'll have it done by Tuesday. You know that's not going to be the case.
Carl: Yeah. Well, and the other thing I think is really important is when they talk to you. And again, for everybody listening this, reading the newsletter, think about it as if you were the broker and you were getting ready to help somebody else sell their shop. What would you want to ask them so that you could know you were doing a great job because that's what you want a broker who wants to do a great job for you, right? So I think part of that also is going to be sharing with them what are the potential hurdles that you're going to have to overcome. Not to make it just a rosy picture where everybody walks away with millions of dollars, but to say, hey, there is some work you're going to have to do. We're going to have to be able to explain your pipeline. We're going to have to be able to show the different types of revenue that you have coming in. Right?
Gene: Well, it brings up a question that I was... I didn't know if this might be later or what, or if we will lead into it. But I know a lot of people, a lot of my peers and even myself to a certain degree, I don't have a lot of systems. Right? When you have a lot of employees or a lot of team members, there's a lot of processes and systems that you have literally written down. Does that come into play in some of the people you've researched? Does the broker do some coaching in that aspect of like, hey, if you really want to sell this, you need to have these things in place so that you can communicate, this is how shit gets done.
Carl: I think so. I think what it becomes a little bit tricky is you need to have had those things in place for a few years.
Gene: Right. I mean, I wouldn't buy a company if didn't have that stuff in place. I'd be like, wait, I'm, I'm going to buy a giant problem.
Carl: [crosstalk 00:11:37] And they're sharing like, hey, this is amazing revenue that we've made, but nobody's talking about EBITDA. Nobody's talking about profit. Nobody's talking about anything like that. It's like, hey, I can tell you I've been in some companies that made great revenue and I still wasn't sure about my mortgage.
Gene: Yep. Or you don't know like, how the hell are we making money? Or how are we not making... You don't know what's going on.
Carl: Where's the money coming from? Where's the profit coming from? Things like that. So I think you're right. Again, that gets to actually what I'm going to call our third point.
Gene: What up.
Carl: They've got to understand the industry. They have to have relevant selling history. If you find a broker who has sold a bunch of businesses, but they've only sold one or two digital shops, right? And so to your point with that, they wouldn't know if you were doing a great job or a bad job. Now they'd be able to look at the basic metrics and see if you're sustainable or healthy, but I also want somebody to talk to me about the culture of the company and how it's going to change, because if you're thinking about it, you're selling an auto parts dealership, right?
Carl: You've got six auto parts stores. Are they going to talk about the culture? Probably not. They're going to talk about staffing and issues with turnover and things like that. Whereas we're going to talk about, we've worked so hard to establish this culture, we know it's going to change, we just want it to change on purpose, we want there to be a process for our people. A fly by night broker, somebody who's just in it as a numbers game, they are not going to take the time to hold your hand, right?
Gene: Right. analogy might be selling a website based on how many pages it is.
Carl: Right?
Gene: Like a pricing a website project based on how many pages it's going to be. You're like-
Carl: If you didn't know anything.
Gene: Right. I mean, Google's very expensive because it's millions of pages. That's why.
Carl: Yeah. Or even not understanding if it's a transactional site or informational site or web three. Whatever it might be. Speaking of which that's a hot topic in the community right now. Soon as I know anything about it that I can back up we'll get on that. So I think relevant selling history is important and I think you need to ask for references right up front, but I think there's a special way to ask for them. Okay? So if you ask for references, you're going to get sent references. And which references are they going to send? The ones that are super happy. Right?
Gene: Yeah.
Carl: So, I mean, I play this role for a lot of shops in the bureau when they're trying to find out something, but they don't want to reveal that they're the ones asking. So I'll play that intermediary role, right? But I think when you start looking at relevant selling history and you want to talk to references, the thing you should ask first is how many shops have you sold in the last 12 to 24 months, right? And then when they tell you that number, ask for a list of the shops and the prices. Whatever they can share transparently, right? Whatever they have the right to share. Now I don't know enough to know if these are ever publicly listed. I know that a lot of people share it publicly.
Gene: Probably not. Yeah.
Carl: But the reason I say that is because then you can cherry pick which ones are like you, right? Are you more project based? Are you more in a niche service? Whatever it might be. Can you find somebody that's like you? Then you can ask them, right? You don't even have to... I mean, yeah. Okay. So if it was 12 months or 24 months ago, you're going to have some sort of contact, but I'm sure on LinkedIn, you could find who used to own it, right? They're probably listed, but I think this is important. Don't just ask for references, make sure that they're applicable to you and your situation. And that was one of the amazing notes that I got from somebody who said that they had to bail twice on the broker that they had hired.
Carl: And this is another thing to understand some of those broker agreements, which I'll say our friends at matchstick have looked at one and they said that they are not put together very well. You can tell that they're... And I don't mean that they're slated or they're weighted just to one side. I mean that they're just not very professional. Right? So one of the things though that this person said was the third time they followed that approach where they said, I want to see shops like me, I want to talk to shops like me, and I want to understand what that was. And that third broker actually embraced it, right? But here's the other thing. You need to understand how dedicated is that broker, right? Are you important to them or not? Because the other question you need to ask is how many current businesses are you selling? Because if they're selling 45 right now, you know it's like a two person operation. Okay. Then they're just throwing you out there to see what happens, right?
Gene: Yeah. And they're reaching involvement in your industry is probably not that good.
Carl: Right. Because I mean, even if those were all web shops, then you have to ask yourself, how long have you been doing this? That's why I think the 24 month range is really important. How many shops have you sold in the last 24 months? Because 24 months ago this wasn't a thing, right? With COVID maybe you have to give them 2019, like show me what you did in 2019, because it was such a tumultuous situation. I can't spell that word, but I can say it.
Gene: I just put it on my food.
Carl: I think it's important underneath my shirt. Think it's not illegal yet. Tumultuous list.
Gene: Tumultuous list.
Carl: I can't say it anymore, like velocicoaster. Ooh, I said it. So getting back to it, I think the other important thing is to understand their valuation method. Is it in sync with other things that we've heard? And I'll be honest, I've sat through probably 10 presentations on valuation methods. I still don't understand.
Gene: [inaudible 00:17:56].
Carl: I know. Well, hey, it's my job. Signed up for it. But I think it's really important to understand how they came up with the number they came up with and how are they going to stand behind it? Because that's the other thing. If they show up and just give you a number and say, this is it, this is what we're going for. They price you too low and it moves quick, it hurts you and them. They price it too high and it doesn't move, it hurts you and them. So a great broker isn't going to play this numbers game where they're just trying to shuffle people through, which is what I think you see a ton of right now.
Carl: And some people are doing it much better than others in terms of the attracting the right shops, beating them down over time so that they'll take less money than they think they're worth just to get it over with. And you can't give up. We said that in the last episode, if you were part of this, you have to know when to bail. And I mentioned this earlier, I don't know that went all the way through, but sometimes in your agreements with them, you can't hire another broker for a certain amount of time. Make sure in that agreement that you get that son of a struck out.
Gene: Yeah. That's rough.
Carl: Why would you say that? I mean, you can say that I can't have two employed at the same time.
Gene: Well, that's counterproductive. Yes.
Carl: Yeah. I'm fine with that. But if you tell me that for a year after engaging you, I can't talk to another broker?
Gene: No.
Carl: That just smells of trapping me so that you can try to get through it. But again, with the valuation, not only asking how they got there, but it gets back to that understanding. Have they done this for other people using that same valuation method and what was the average percentage of that valuation that they got for the individual? Right? Are you talking with somebody who's normally getting 90 to 95% of what they say or 105 or are they dead on? What are they getting around 65 to 70% of what? Because they want you to hear those magical words of you're going to make money, right?
Gene: Yeah. I think at the end of the day, you have to remember that they're salesman. I mean, they're selling you. Right now.
Carl: They are. Actually, my phone has not stopped ringing since we've started this and they just keep selling me.
Gene: How big of a thing is this man?
Carl: How big of it? You mean in terms of, in the industry?
Gene: Yeah.
Carl: Approximately 7.2%. No, I don't know. It is something that everybody's talking about. By everybody, I mean, even if you're not thinking about selling your shop, you're hearing about it. Because when somebody does have it happen, it's news and it's going to travel.
Gene: Right. Because it's always like-
Carl: I've never seen... I'll tell you right now. I know personally of about a dozen shops that are looking to sell. And that's in the bureau community. So that's within the membership base. So I mean, we're about a thousand. So it's like, doesn't sound like a large number. Well actually, if you look at the number of shops, there are about 450 or 500 shops I think represented. So it's a couple of percent, right? Maybe 4% that are actively engaged in it. But in terms of those that are thinking about it, my gut feels like it's up in the 20% range.
Gene: Probably. Right.
Carl: I mean, there are a lot of people who've been beat up. It's been a rough couple of years, even though they're making a lot of money, it's so hard to create the work. And if somebody shows up and says, hey, I got 5 million for you. You just need to sign here and I'll take care of it. And then suddenly it becomes one and a half million, right? Because that story was one that came through.
Gene: That seems... Yeah.
Carl: Somebody who decided against it. But another big thing, Gene, let's say that you go through and you sign up with the broker. Now, what? What do you think is something super important to know about once you sign that paperwork? It's obvious.
Gene: I don't know.
Carl: Because I wrote it.
Gene: I don't know if it's obvious.
Carl: What's the plan?
Gene: Oh, right.
Carl: What are you going to do now? Right? And I'm not-
Gene: I kind of figured you'd learned that before you signed on.
Carl: Well, yeah. Okay. So Gene, let's rewind. You are correct, sir.
Gene: That's not going to work.
Carl: It would definitely be a better plan. In fact, all of this really is kind of before you sign on, I think. But yeah, what's their approach going to be to creating awareness and selling your company. Because I'll tell you that there are some companies out there that they are just going to throw you on a mailing list. They are going to float you in front of every person who said they're interested in anything. There's no slicing and dicing.
Gene: So let me ask you about this. It's funny that I didn't think about this until just now, but we have a client of ours that was approached to be bought. Assets and talent thing. And they signed on with a broker to help make it work. And then the broker did that. The broker put them on some list. And then the buyer was like, no, fuck you. Because they were like, why? Whatever. So I wonder if that's part of that knowing what the hell the plan is, because it's like, you might be in an industry or you might be working and it could hurt you as far as what your client's working with you.
Carl: And your team.
Gene: Yeah. How do you do that and keep it all quiet? That's very important. If that's a thing.
Carl: So interestingly, this was something I found out. On these giant lists they get sent out, generally they don't say who their companies are, right? But-
Gene: You could figure that out.
Carl: Well, I don't know. There's so many of them, it's almost like looking at a school of fish and figuring out which one's Dory. Right? There's so many that are out there that are all trying to accomplish the same thing. But one of the interesting things, I'm going to get part of this story wrong. But on one of the main brokers websites, they were using JPEGs that had something to do with the companies. Right? It wasn't a logo. It wasn't a photo. I really have to go back and look and see what it was. But the JPEGs were named the company name. So they basically went out there trying not to show who it was. And I got to figure out what you would put on there that would have the name, but it was a big deal. I had a couple of people tell me about it to the point where these people don't know each other, but they both knew about this.
Gene: And let me say, if you're listening to this and before you think, what? No one's going to do that. Or it's not a big deal. I've run conferences for years. And I was just editing the images really fast, right? And I'm using the same image because it's the right size. And I'm just dropping other JPEGs on top of it and saving it out, saving it out. And the naming, I had somebody's logo named something that wasn't the name of their company. And they got this. They were like, this image reference is not the name of my company or whatever. And they were like, yeah, give me some argument about SEO or whatever. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like dude. But I mean, it's important because... One, it was important because it was their logo. But also it had the wrong name on it. Yeah. It could be-
Carl: Whatever the graphic was-
Gene: That kind of shit can be a problem.
Carl: ... [crosstalk 00:26:01] was for sale. But I think this gets back to-
Gene: Or you just follow where the image is and it's in a directory, that's got everyone else's shit in there and you can just see it. You're like, well, what about all of this stuff? I used to actually do that for conferences. I'd look at the image for the sponsor logo and then try to find the file and then see all the other sponsors to see who you'd like to call.
Carl: Do you remember the old days of just going JPEG one, refresh, JPEG two, refresh, JPEG three, refresh.
Gene: Yeah. Yeah.
Carl: I won't say what I was looking at, but let's just say-
Gene: You naughty.
Carl: No. Gene, I'm embarrassed for you. If that's where your brain would go.
Gene: That doesn't embarrass me.
Carl: So getting back to this approach, like what's the sales plan. I think you have to ask yourself, are they going to find a buyer who cares about our shop? Is it an eHarmony approach or is it a shotgun approach where they are just going to throw it out there and see what happens? And you can tell by looking, you don't have to actually ask them. You can. It'd be interesting to see what they say, but sign up like you want to buy a shop. Right?
Carl: Get somebody else to do it. But secret shop them to see what happens. I will tell you, I was supposed to be on that one phone call, cancel five minutes ahead of time. Never rescheduled. And I get their emails daily showing me all the new shops that are available. And they have no idea who I am. I have never said I'm buying a shop. I've never said what I'm looking at. And yet if you go with them, I'm the person that they're sharing it with. It makes no sense. Unless they think that somehow, because I'm connected to a lot of shops, I'm going to say, hey, this looks like a great deal.
Gene: Maybe they know you are. Yeah.
Carl: But it doesn't say anything about what makes the shop special. It says their industry. It says the numbers. This is purely if somebody wanted an investment, right? And that's part of why this is so hot right now.
Gene: Maybe that's what they're thinking.
Carl: A lot of moneys come out of the market. People aren't trusting the stock market right now. So they're investing in shops and companies that-
Gene: So buy a web design shop. That's brilliant.
Carl: Well, no, but the thing is-
Gene: No. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Carl: ... They just see the numbers. And your vertical is higher ed or healthcare or government, right? Or e-com of any kind.
Gene: Or space travel.
Carl: You're seeing this huge increase in revenue. And that's people want to put their money somewhere where it's going to make money. And that makes sense. But if you're just buying a car, because it goes a certain speed and gets a certain gas mileage and we'll see to a certain number of folks, it could be a Honda Accord or it could be a Ferrari, right? It's like, you have no idea. You can't fit for a Ferrari. I don't know what I'm thinking.
Gene: No.
Carl: You could. You could.
Gene: Well, you could.
Carl: It's going to get comfortable.
Gene: Yeah. You'd have to chop them up.
Carl: You'd have to chop them up. Oh my God.
Gene: No?
Carl: Gene, last thing. Last thing to decide if you're going to hire a broker, let's say you've gone through the other stuff. Right? They're certified. They're a part of an association. Somebody told you they were great. You like the way they approached talking to you and understanding more about your business. Their valuation methods seemed good. They had good contacts. All this sort of thing. You're right down to the wire. You're thinking about it. What would make you say no?
Gene: What would make me say no? Oh man. I don't know. The smarminess of the guy. I don't know. I don't know where we're going.
Carl: Yes. Nearly hit it.
Gene: I hate sales people.
Carl: If you don't like them.
Gene: The quintessential caricature of a salesperson. That drives me crazy.
Carl: You spent 10, 15, 20 years, even five years building this thing that has value. Your web shop. And now you're going to trust somebody to sell it that you don't like?
Gene: Yeah.
Carl: No, you've got to be able to trust them. You've got to feel good that they are going to be out there representing you properly. If you have any sense that this person is not above board, that it just doesn't feel right, you're signing up with them for a long time potentially, to try to do this correctly for you. Now I'll say there may be people that you don't like because they're smarmy, which is a great word. Right? Swarmy would be more bees, but smarmy would be-
Gene: Swarmy might work for you in your favor.
Carl: Some jackhole. I'm bringing that back by the way. It's one of my favorite cuss words that I think I made up. What a jackhole. Anyway, when you get to that point, you can still trust somebody that you don't want to have a beer with. I'm not saying that it has to be your best friend, I'm not saying it has to be somebody that looks like you, or that comes from your background or anything like that. I'm saying it needs to be somebody that when you sign that piece of paper, you feel like this person has my best interest and they want to see me win. They have my best interest at heart. They want to see me win. You don't have to like the person, but it would help.
Gene: Yeah. So you're talking about those intangible things. I mean, I would want to make sure they were like a pro, they sit that pro vibe. You know what I mean?
Carl: Yeah. Without a doubt.
Gene: That I know they're going to be like sending those follow emails and closing things out with people. This is not going to just be sloppy salesmanship.
Carl: No, that's it.
Gene: When it goes to the smarmy, that's kind of what I'm talking about. Like that Better call Saul type of sales guy. You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't want to work with that guy. I'd want the Wolf of Wall Street dude, fucking get it done.
Carl: So I got a few one offs here, Gene.
Gene: Let's do them.
Carl: They're one offs because I thought of them after I'd already written and there was no room on the paper.
Gene: A lot of numbers.
Carl: Even though you were late.
Gene: I'm sorry.
Carl: And I would've had enough time because you had planned. Carl needs more time to prepare. I'll tell him I'm running late, but then my neighbor came over and it's really difficult to be liked by all. I'm just going to say that. Transparency around how they're compensated, I think is really important. If they are getting compensated based on the buyer versus the seller... All of this makes a huge difference. Just the-
Gene: They're going to beat you down.
Carl: Exactly. Are they more interested in a placement fee? Because some people are just getting a fee for the placement, which can be a percentage, right? But what is that percentage? I've heard that five to 10% is kind of in the realm of normal.
Gene: That seems low.
Carl: I'm sorry. We're going to have to revise this. I'm going to have to go back. I think it was two to 5% is more in the normal, five to 10% is where it starts to get a little bit out of control. Because if you're selling something for a million dollars and somebody gets a hundred thousand of that, that's like... I mean, it depends, right? I guess everything's up in the air. Actually, just delete everything I've just said because I have no confidence in myself and I'm trying to talk about numbers and I'm a theater major. So transparency around there they're compensated.
Gene: But that's a great point, what all the stuff you just said. As far as our industry is concerned, this is fairly new and it's all kind of malleable, right? It's not like older types of businesses that get sold a lot more commonly. There's probably industry standards set among the brokers that this is how we do these things and this type of thing. When it comes to ours, they're probably all like, we don't know.
Carl: Well, I mean, I think we forget that we hold the power. Without us offering shops to sell, they have nothing, right? With us without us offering to buy those shops, which a lot of times this other shops buying shops, right? They have nothing. And so-
Gene: Honestly, that's all I've ever heard of. Is another shop acquiring clients or employees or whatever? Organizational culture, whatever. That's all I've ever heard of.
Carl: It's outside of it now. I mean, sometimes it's internal. So it's like some big corporation that knows they need a certain talent set or a certain expertise and they want to bring them in. Sometimes it is somebody who's just wanting to run a shop and they ended up leaving whatever else they had. I'm just going to say one last thing. One last thing. I'm not going to say a couple, Gene.
Gene: One last thing.
Carl: Be sure in shop. Don't just go with the broker that shows up, make sure you're paying attention. And when you shop, compare how they're compensated with how the other people say they're compensated. Compare their plan for you, like how they're going to market you compared to how others market you. And then get a gauge on their dedication. Right? Are they just there in the moment and then you call them the next day and you don't hear from them for four days? Because that's going to happen once you're trying sell as well. And if you have some great idea and... I'll be honest. There are a lot of people where this is a part-time hustle right now. They saw there was an opportunity. They knew enough people. So make sure you understand that. How dedicated are they not just to their craft? Because the ones that are great, I would say it is a craft. It is eHarmony, right? They are matching you up. But how dedicated are they to you?
Gene: I believe that.
Carl: Are they going to tell you that these things look a little suspect and you need to tighten it up? Or are they going to tell you they'll have you listed tomorrow? You need somebody on your side who doesn't just want to get you through the door. They want to make sure that you're set for whatever it is you need to get out of this transaction.
Gene: Well, it sounds like that old... In our industry, you got the cheap, fast and good. It sounds like the same sort of three point pyramid kind of holds here too.
Carl: It explains so much that you saw it as cheap, fast and good.
Gene: What do you see? What do you see?
Carl: We saw it as less expensive, okay? Timely manner. And amazing.
Gene: Oh, I see.
Carl: Yeah. So.
Gene: Well.
Carl: Gene.
Gene: Whatever.
Carl: Should we sell the podcast? Should we contact a broker?
Gene: Cheap and fast.
Carl: Here, this would be fun. What if we set up a bogus agency.
Gene: To sell it, always.
Carl: To sell it. And just see if we make it through some of the processes for some of these brokers who are just looking to list quick. That would be amazing. It actually would pay homage to my dad. He was a child psychologist and there was a time where they were no longer requiring therapists to be licensed much like it is today. Psychologist didn't have to be licensed. So he got a gerbil. He bought a gerbil and put together credentials for the gerbil and it got approved. And that became this big national write up in like psychology [crosstalk 00:37:58], the American's psychology association, where it's like, yeah, so unless you really want a gerbil to be your therapist-
Gene: You should probably.
Carl: [crosstalk 00:38:10] carrots and lettuce then yeah, you need to figure it out.
Gene: That's awesome.
Carl: That would be fun. If anybody's interested in us doing that, reach out to us. And another thing I just want to say really quickly, Gene, if you're thinking about selling your shop, make sure you got your operations together. You know how you do that? Hire [inaudible 00:38:30].
Gene: Hire [inaudible 00:38:31].
Carl: Hire [inaudible 00:38:33]. They're keeping the show on the air folks.
Gene: Are they? I don't know.
Carl: All right, Gene.
Gene: I was going to say hire [inaudible 00:38:46], but most importantly, join the bureau.
Carl: Oh shit. Join the bureau. Yes, please.
Gene: Because Carl needs all the help he can get.
Carl: Oh my God. I need so much help. And I'll help you sell your shop. I'll get it sold tomorrow. For what I told you.
Gene: For a million dollars. Yes. He'll do it.
